Speaker 1: 0:13

Well, I'm so thankful for JFK and so many of different people from Northgate that has been sharing their different testimonies. Hopefully that gives you some inspiration and some permission each week as we share this stuff. If you're newer with us, we've been having a conversation about mental health. We've been calling this series Hope and Help, where we're trying to practically find hope and help in different aspects of that. Where we're trying to practically find hope and help and different aspects of that. And as we've been talking through our mental health conversations, we have been expressing that it impacts us in four different buckets, that our mental health can be something that takes place because of situational circumstances, also because of clinical weekend. There's a clinical aspect where we need to go and get tools and help and seek therapy or psychotherapy. Also biological or chemistry, where maybe that involves some sort of medication or help when it comes to the medical side, when it comes to our biology. And then, lastly, spiritual. There's a spiritual bucket which really everything has the spiritual aspect to it and many of us can actually encounter some of this mental health in one bucket at a time, or there's times that it can hit literally every bucket and we can experience those things and we have been walking through the topics of. First we kind of started this whole thing off with it's okay to not be okay. Then we discussed kind of the lies that we're told that I'm not loved, that I'm not accepted, that I'm not known, and then we just finished talking about five big topics like self-esteem and worth. We talked about suicide, we talked about anxiety and worry, we talked about stress and burnout, and then we talked about depression. We talked about anxiety and worry, we talked about stress and burnout and then we talked about depression. And today I have a friend with me here today that I'm going to introduce you to in just a moment and our goal is to give you five practical tools that can give you help, and so they're going to be simple but they're profound and these are tools that you can take so with me today to help me in this conversation.

Speaker 1: 2:19

This is Dr Cheryl Ho. She's local, from the Bay. She's a physician in both internal medicine and addiction medicine and has spent most of her career actually working with unhoused individuals in Santa Clara County in San Jose. She currently works as the medical director at an organization called Healing Grove Health Center and it's in San Jose. It's a Christian faith-based clinic. That's actually how we got connected, and currently she's working as the behavioral health medical director for the County of Santa Clara for substance use treatment services.

Speaker 1: 2:56

And then one like I think great caveat in this to bring into this perspective of conversation isn't just her you know all of the letters that are after her name and her education but it's also that she's a follower of Jesus and her husband and her they've started a church called New Vine Community Church. It's in Mountain View. Her husband is the pastor there, douglas Tu. He's the lead pastor there, and so she's actually taken some time off. She actually just wrapped up a VBS, so she's at the end of herself. She's excited, but she's super tired coming because they just did their week coming into this and so she gets to spend her weekend here with us. So, so thankful. Would you please welcome Dr Cheryl Hove with us today, if we would, you please welcome Dr Cheryl Ho with us today.

Speaker 2: 3:38

Thanks for having me. Northgate Church and Pastor Larry, I'm just really incredibly, just amazed and just really thankful that your senior pastor here has gone through this series with you around hope and help conversations in a safe place in the church context to talk about these issues which so many people struggle with ourselves, our family members and I think it's really great, and so today, you know, I'm really excited to share with you all. I have to put a disclaimer in, though, that this is kind of like those prescription drug commercials that I don't represent.

Speaker 1: 4:14

You have to say it really fast, though I don't represent the opinions of anyone else but my own.

Speaker 2: 4:19

So I don't represent, you know, the County of Santa Clara or Stanford who I'm affiliated with. But these really do come out of my convictions as a Christ follower and as a physician who's seen many patients over many years.

Speaker 1: 4:31

Yeah, so these are your, your own thoughts and opinions. That's great. So there are many different types of mental health conditions and causes.

Speaker 2: 4:43

you know, we know can be about thinking about how to address mental health disorders, and what I want to say is, just as the causes of mental health are very many, you know, so people might ask me is it relational, is it situational, is it genetics, is it chemistry? All of those answers, yes, and by the same token, I think the responses to mental health are also going to be many, and so we're going to address five today, and so that's where we're going to dive in. So I'm just going to do a quick overview. Was it physical body? We're going to talk about medications. We're going to talk about counseling or therapy. We're going to talk about community and the spiritual aspects.

Speaker 1: 5:38

So one of the unique perspectives that I mentioned earlier is not only do you get to come at this from a physician, or just a human too, but also as a follower of Jesus, and that lens that we get to look through today. So thank you for bringing that, and that's something that you get to share, where not oftentimes those type of perspectives are shared very often. So I know that in your field a lot of things medically are evidence-based and there's practical tips, but there's also the spiritual aspects to that, which we'll get to a little bit. So let's go ahead and hop right in and we'll kind of do a swath through all of those. So the first one this is now five practical tools that will give you help when it comes to your mental health.

Speaker 2: 6:15

The first one is Physical body tools that will give you help when it comes to your mental health. First one is Physical body, and so this you know, I think, as Pastor Larry was saying, you know there's some things that are evidence-based and some things that are just practical good common sense. And so I think some of this is common sense, but there's a little bit of evidence about it. So first thing around physical body that I want to talk about is exercise, and so before I kind of go into that, let me just kind of paint a picture of mental health, just sort of in its disease severity. So there's mild disorders no-transcript of a mental health condition and then there's those that are severe, and so that's where your life has been completely taken over, and if you haven't sought out help, professional help, at that point when you were in moderate, you absolutely need to in the severe.

Speaker 2: 7:16

So when we talk about some of this practical physical body stuff, the evidence has really been in the mild disorders. So when I talk about exercise, I'm talking about two to three times a week, 30 to 60 minutes of vigorous exercise getting your heart rate up, you know. And if you're not an active person to begin with, you know, start small. You don't need to be thinking about Olympic athlete right from the get go, but just getting yourself outside taking a walk 30 to 60 minutes two to three times a week. There's actually been studies to show that there's been positive associations with mental health.

Speaker 1: 7:49

Yeah, I know that and, speaking to people, that's one of the more difficult things to do because oftentimes when you're dealing with some of your mental health issues, you know you just want to sleep or you want to just sit and you know binge or just be in that kind of isolation. What physically takes place, like in our bodies, when we actually do that, like what is there a chemical reaction or what's the health benefits when it comes to that?

Speaker 2: 8:11

Right, I mean I think there are so many things that happen, you know, when we exercise. So you know you guys have probably heard of endorphins and so you know those are sort of the kind of chemical things that kind of do these amazing things and lifting our spirits. So I mean I know it's hard to get out to exercise but really chemically when we do that that has an effect on us, and so similarly, another tip is really around sunlight. So there is actually good evidence again in the mild categories, but I would say helpful for all categories of mental health to be out in the sunlight 30 to 60 minutes a day, and here in California we have the benefit of much more sunlight than the rest, than much of the country, and so you know, for people in kind of the more northern areas, some people have to use like light boxes, but here here it's just a good reason to get outside every day and you know so. When you go back to kind of the chemical, I mean there's vitamin D.

Speaker 2: 9:03

And so we have found out recently that, you know, when we don't go outside as much, our vitamin D levels drop. Uh, and vitamin lower vitamin D levels are associated with higher rates of depression, for sure.

Speaker 1: 9:15

So that's a really practical, helpful tool for you. So if you're struggling with your mental health, you need to make it a priority that you're being a little bit more physically active. That'll actually help you deal with the things that are coming and going on with you, as well as getting outside. So that's actually a great opportunity to go to someone else and be like, let me just hang out with you outside. Let's, let's get outside. You've been inside all day. You've just been, you know, kind of huddled up. That's an encouraging factor. Or be like let me go for a walk with you, like we'll just do something nice and easy just to get you moving and talking. Okay, so part of that physical body, so exercising some daylight. What's another?

Speaker 2: 9:52

All right. Then the other two big ones are sleep and diet. So sleep, it's a little bit of a chicken or egg, right, I think. Some folks that struggle with depression struggle with sleeping too much, or, you know, perhaps they're not able to get enough sleep, but on the other hand, we know that if you don't get enough sleep you're more likely to struggle with your mental health. And so you know, I think we've talked about….

Speaker 1: 10:14

Yeah, what's the right amount of sleep? Yeah, especially for the parents and stuff, you know, getting ready to go back in school. We want to be supportive of a lot of like the mental health stuff that's going to take place. Like what different age groups? Right?

Speaker 2: 10:24

So different ages, different amounts of sleep. So I think when you're young, you're in elementary school you know you need more sleep. So kids need around, you know, 10 hours plus or minus, as you know, get older become young adults.

Speaker 2: 10:36

It's great, just it would be amazing. I don't think I could do that now. Um, you know, I think for young adults, teenagers, they need a little bit less sleep. I think they want to get less sleep, but actually they probably should be getting around eight plus or minus hours or so, and then when you hit sort of you know where I'm kind of am but uh, middle age and above the sleep, I mean, even if you want to sleep a lot, you just can't. So I think a good night's sleep probably is around six hours plus or minus.

Speaker 1: 11:02

Okay, that's helpful. So sleep and then diet.

Speaker 2: 11:05

Diet, yes, so with diet there's a little bit less evidence. So exercise has great evidence, but diet has a little bit less evidence. But there has been some association with you guessed it ultra-processed food and sugars. So I think you know this is kind of very doctorly advice. But staying away and, you know, kind of digging in more into the healthy diets of fruits and vegetables, while that's not going to transform someone, you know automatically that it can lead to some help.

Speaker 1: 11:34

Yeah, absolutely Okay. So, so practical, the first thing that gives you help is just your physical body and paying attention to that which, biblically, all throughout scripture, you see that where God is through people like focused on taking care of that, he created us, he knows how we work and how to sustain and deal with just the pressures that we're going to deal with. And this next one is maybe a little bit more of a taboo subject, especially kind of in the faith community, depending on how traditionalism has affected you. What's number two?

Speaker 2: 12:06

All right, let's talk about medications. I think this is something we probably maybe don't talk so much about in the church, and I just want to say, first and foremost, I absolutely believe and know that Jesus is our healer, he is the great physician and he does heal our diseases and our infirmities. That is what the scripture says. I think we all recognize that we all have our days numbered and we will not live forever. We will in eternity if we follow him. But this side of heaven, sometimes there are cancers that are not healed.

Speaker 2: 12:39

You know, we people succumb to heart disease or lung disease, but on the other hand, we see that Jesus does heal. Like I've had personal stories in my family as well in my church, of Jesus doing some amazing healing work. And so right now, in this world that we live in, we live in this tension. Yes, Jesus is our healer, but we haven't seen the full manifestation of that yet. And so the same goes for mental health. You know, with mental health, we know that Jesus can and does heal, but there's also the here and now where we're not fully, you know, seeing that lived out. And so when I talk about medications, I want to just reassure you and this is my perspective. Is that God allowed for these medications to be created, and you are not. What do I want to say? Not being it is perfectly fine and it is okay to take medications, and I think that's something we don't talk about enough.

Speaker 1: 13:31

I think it's a really sensitive topic for some people. You have, I think, this next generation that's helping kind of get rid of some of the taboo with it, which is another topic we can talk about. You know, overprescribing potentially. But then you have a generation I've had a lot of conversations with you or family members that have been taught or told hey, just fix yourself and don't do it with medication, or you've felt the shame of you know you need to pray it away and, like you were saying, some of those things just don't happen. It doesn't go away just through prayer, although it's very good and it's helpful that you need that other tool that comes alongside of there. So many people deal with the struggle of shame that's attached to it or traditionalism that's attached to it, that it's, you know, taboo to participate in that. So what kind of is the variable and how helpful should it be? Or when should you even maybe say yes to that? Like, what are some markers that would just in an open, honest conversation?

Speaker 2: 14:31

Sure, and so what I want to say is I think we've come to really understand that depression, anxiety and mental health disorders. You know they are chronic diseases, just like diabetes and high blood pressure, and so, just as we would never tell someone you know, don't take your diabetes medicines when your sugars are out of this, you know, kind of off the charts. Similarly that's how we would approach many of these mental health disorders, and what I want to say is that, from the scientific evidence, there's especially evidence in the moderate to severe. So if you know you yourself or your friends are really struggling with your function and your everyday life, that is really where the science has shown that medications do improve.

Speaker 2: 15:11

That being said, I think you know you had mentioned overprescribing. You know, do we overprescribe as a medical community? Absolutely, I do think so. I think because they are so readily available, sometimes we're quick to jump to them when perhaps it's a mild disorder, and so you know, I just want to say you know, medications are never the fix-all, and I think sometimes in our society today we're looking for a quick fix. We're like, okay, we got to take that medication. No, I mean, I don't think that's really what it's intended for. But I also want to say don't shy away from it If you know you, if it really the depression or the anxiety is really starting to affect your life, because that's really where the evidence is.

Speaker 1: 15:49

What are some markers maybe that we should be aware of for self, or maybe even family or friends, on when they should seek help? Right? So I think you know.

Speaker 2: 16:01

I think the one that kind of comes to mind some of the red flags is really when someone is having suicidal thoughts, especially if they're recurrent, if you're struggling to show up to your work or your school, or if you're just not getting enough enjoyment, and so that might happen in mild, but if you keep getting more and more and more of those things that happen, that's really when the red flags start happening and that's really when you should start considering medication.

Speaker 1: 16:25

That's great, okay. So practical help Take care of your body physically and then use. If there's a biological chemistry issue, then use the access of medication and talk to a professional about that. Number three Right.

Speaker 2: 16:41

Number three is therapy or counseling. So I think that's pretty common these days for people to seek therapy and counseling, and I do think also there is benefit when we look at the medical literature for that. So there is, you know, improvement, with or without medications. You know, in the mild, but in the moderate and severe they go hand in hand with medication. So good counseling and therapy, and what I want to say, you know, to an audience of those who may be Christ followers, is that to just maybe some things to think about if you decide to seek counseling. And so those are really keeping some like a Christian or Christ-centered worldview in mind. And so, you know, I guess what I'm trying to say is think about what your counselor is saying and measure against what you know is in God's word. So, for example, I think one of the principles that we should think about is really the idea about, you know, sinfulness and the nature of human sinfulness. You know, the Bible says that we are sinful in nature and I think that is a concept that is foreign to much of the world. You know, there's a book out there whose parenting advice that I love, that's called Good Inside. And while I do, you know, believe that we are made in the image of God. You know, fundamentally we are sinful individuals and so, you know, when you hear kind of the information from the therapist or the counselor, you know, take it with a grain of salt. You know, is this biblical wisdom or is it not? I think, similarly, advice around truth.

Speaker 2: 18:10

I think there is a movement towards relative truth. In the scripture. We hear that, you know, we know that Jesus is the. He says that I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Jesus, except through me, is what Jesus says. And so, following the truth of scripture and making sure that you are following you know that you understand that there is a difference between right and wrong. And then the final thing that I would say is there, you know, is a movement to focus on the self, and while it's important to take care of ourselves, in the scripture Jesus talks about laying down your life, laying down your life for your friends, and Jesus obviously sacrificed his life, and so that is a foreign concept also. So I would say get the help, take it when it's available, but keep these scriptural principles in mind when you're receiving that help.

Speaker 1: 19:00

Yeah, permission is really key here. I think that it's important for us to understand that our friends or family, or even just you, sometimes need permission. So if someone's you know in a difficult situation or a spot where they could use clinical help and some of those tools, sometimes you just responding with like I think that's a good idea can go so far for someone else that's struggling with again, I just need to fix this myself. And why can't I fix this myself? And you know people are going to look at me weird.

Speaker 1: 19:30

Fortunately, I love where culture is kind of going and becoming more acceptable of this and with that way, more resources are abound. There's all kinds of things in your workplace that you can look into and my encouragement to you and you know this too is to take advantage of it Wellness centers within your place of work At schools we didn't have that kind of wellness opportunity through counselors and people specifically with education on mental health, so taking advantage of that is really important. I love that you said you know kind of interview your therapist and make sure whatever education they have or their world perspective is going to match up, because there can really be some detriment in the midst of that.

Speaker 2: 20:15

Right. So I would just say you know you don't have to find a, you know a Christian therapist. That's not what I'm saying. But what I'm saying is just, you know, take what they say with a grain of salt and really weigh that against what you know from the Bible.

Speaker 1: 20:28

So we discussed this earlier. I think one of the things that people misunderstand about therapy or psychotherapist is, as much as you want to be their friend and be family forever, you should fire them Eventually. They want to be fired Like they don't want to have you forever. They don't want to be your friend forever, a good, so this is important. I think people don't understand this. A good therapist or psychotherapist actually wants you to not continue to see them. They want to make sure you have tools and that you can take that and move on with things. Sure you have tools and that you can take that and move on with things, so you don't have to think, oh, therapy's forever, I'm always broken in this place. Their job is to give you tools and your tool belt to continue to function in a healthy way, not to be in therapy forever. Right, so we have physical body really practical, we have medications. So practical therapy or psychotherapy. What's number four?

Speaker 2: 21:21

Number four is community. Yeah, so community is, I think, something that we especially appreciate now that we are post-COVID and we had a period without community. I think, unfortunately, in our Western world we tend to be very independent, whereas I think if you look at our perhaps, countries of origin or even in the beginnings of our own country here in the US, we were much more interdependent with each other. We lived in multi-generational families where perhaps grandparents took care of the children, or you know. I think a lot about pregnant women and your post-delivery state. I think at the you know sort of in the years in the past, you know, people came much more around the family or the woman to really support them, and I think a lot about the postpartum blues that people might experience, and I just think that the community is such a vital aspect that we're sometimes missing these days.

Speaker 1: 22:12

Yeah, you see, people come around for the two weeks. Everybody wants to see the baby and smell the baby, and then they're gone. And then after two weeks they're like see the baby and smell the baby. And then they're gone, and then after two weeks they're like bye good luck, and then six weeks you're back to work.

Speaker 2: 22:22

Yeah, Nothing happened.

Speaker 1: 22:23

Yeah you're just into it and there's a lot that comes to that. Community is so important. You know, another thing with community especially within a faith community like here is that's really what it's built around and for to carry you through some of your really difficult seasons. I know, um, a lot of you did you. Well, I'm just going to call it. You sit in the same spots, like y'all have assigned seats, like you don't want to say it, but you have assigned seats and you're upset if somebody else is in your seat. But here's one of those things with community. You've heard maybe the saying before of we want to get out of rows and into circles. But there's something really beautiful to the row you have and that would be a question of like do you have friends you could call on? Like, what's an example?

Speaker 2: 22:58

Right, so you know, do you know the person that's sitting right next to you? The example that I like to make is, if you needed someone to take you to the airport, do you have a friend that could take you to the airport? Because I think you know. Yes, we have Uber and Lyft, but to me that's a measure of oh you know, can I inconvenience somebody?

Speaker 1: 23:17

somebody.

Speaker 2: 23:18

So it's really important. Yeah, save some money, make a friend.

Speaker 1: 23:20

It's great. Yeah, exactly, it's important to do it. I think community at its best because isolation is really where the devil gets a hold of us and can really mess with us in some really unhealthy ways. But when it's working really at its best, even when it's in rows, everyone's in a science-y kind of deal. So there's people that sit next to you all the time. Do you know their name? And then when you don't see them for a couple weeks, what would happen all of a sudden if you reached out to them and was like, hey, I haven't seen you in a couple weeks.

Speaker 1: 23:47

You doing, okay, yeah, I'm telling you the impact of someone recognizing that you weren't around, to be able to say, no, I'm actually going through it or no, I was just on a vacation, I didn't tell you to feel known or seen or like you are in a community. That's really when it's working at its best and it honestly it can happen in unhealthy ways, even in a church, because we're all messy people and it takes intentionality to be in community for you to call up someone or to go and give permission, or to show up and say I'm just checking on you or you know that person's going to have a baby soon and we're like we're not going to do the two week thing. We're going to go show up you know cause you usually sit in a church and we're going to care for you through the season. It's so, so impactful and it's so practical, but we can miss out in just the simplicity of it and the effects it has on our mental health.

Speaker 2: 24:35

Absolutely. I mean, I think sometimes people feel like, oh, you're going to, you know I'm bothering them. I don't want to bother them, but actually it's a it's. For most times it's, it's actually a welcome. Yeah, it's a welcome kind of intervention.

Speaker 1: 24:47

Yeah, so today maybe some homework is is that person that you think you know their name is? We're just going to say nobody knows anybody's name. So that's just the permission. So anyone's allowed to ask like, hey, my name's blah, blah, blah. So we're just making that the caveat, so you don't have to do the why don't you remember my name? Right, and then grab each other's information If you feel comfortable with it. That's a really beautiful part of community to see each other each and every week where we're at, each other each and every week where we're at. So we have just practical tools of making sure we're taking ourselves physically, our physical body, using medication when it's needed for that. You know the moderate and severe stuff as a tool and a resource for us Also going and getting help, getting tools through therapy and psychotherapy and giving permission to other people to seek out the same things. And then community to not be isolated. So what's the fifth one?

Speaker 2: 25:39

The final one, last but not least, is spiritual, and so you know, I think, that modern medicine actually doesn't pay much attention to the spiritual, but I have a feeling that, for many of you, you all recognize the importance of our spiritual lives, and that's fundamental to our well-being.

Speaker 1: 25:56

Why is that? Why do you think?

Speaker 2: 25:58

You know, I think it might be. You know, perhaps because we've so medicalized science, you know, to the receptors and to the chemicals, and while that's absolutely true, I think we're actually now learning that there's such a role of you know, for example, stress and how that can affect our DNA. There's this whole body of work called epigenetics where you know childhood stress. You could see how it changes your DNA and actually leads to poor outcomes later in life. So I think science is now capturing what we've all known before. You know that we see around spiritual truths. So I have to say you definitely need to look at spiritual. And so when I talk about spiritual, I mean there's a couple of things that I want to talk about, some of the spiritual disciplines. So, for example, I think one of the spiritual disciplines that I think of is praising God and worshiping him.

Speaker 2: 26:48

And so you know, if you're like me and yes, I'm a pastor's wife, it happens to me too. Sometimes I don't feel like you know all the worship songs that I'm singing. So I'll go in and you know, and at those you see the words on the screen and you know, you just sing them, and sometimes you feel like you're going through the motions. But if this has ever happened to you, it's happened to me where somewhere from the beginning of worship to the end of worship, something changes inside right. Of worship to the end of worship, something changes inside right. So if I sing those words of praise, even though I don't mean it, I feel differently at the end, and so that habit, that posture of worship before God on a regular basis, really is tremendous.

Speaker 1: 27:25

Yeah, it's like going to the gym. It's not fun going there, but you don't regret it. When you're leaving, you're like, okay, something good came out of this. That was worth it.

Speaker 2: 27:31

Yeah, absolutely Okay, so praise in. Yeah. The other one I would say you know when all of you guys are doing this today, but going to church on a regular basis, so it's really important you know again, even if you don't feel like it to show up, to be in this community to hear something different than what you might've been thinking about yourself, to get out of your own headspace. So really, the practice of you know being in a community. So you know, I know some people listen online and I know physically, or you know there might be reasons where you can't come in, but if you can come in it really does good for your whole body. You know kind of body, mind and spirit.

Speaker 1: 28:09

That's great, the last big one.

Speaker 2: 28:22

And if you let that kind of simmer and sit in your life, that not only does bad for your spiritual health but also you know we're beginning to see medically that you know it can affect, you know, your cardiovascular health and other aspects of your health as well, and I see that right. You know people that tend to be angry or just tend not to do well in general in life, and so this is a spiritual principle at work, you know the practice life, and so this is a spiritual principle at work.

Speaker 2: 28:50

You know the practice, the habit and the posture of confession confessing before God and while I am not saying that every you know mental health disorder has, you know unconfession there, but what I am saying is if there is an unconfessed area in your life that you haven't given over to God, it will do tremendous wonders for you to just confess before God and to release that hold that it has over your life.

Speaker 1: 29:13

That really is a discipline that a lot of people struggle with and instead will hang on to the shame or the physical feeling and fear of that you've been caught or that people don't really know what's going on and the things that it does to not just you spiritually but physically has great impacts to your mental health. And so to figure out the discipline of just on a regular basis, releasing that and remembering that's not the way that God sees you and that it's going to be okay and that you can work through this and you will survive this and they will figure it out together, all of those things that we can carry. I think confession is an art that oftentimes we don't practice enough that muscle that gets worked out and the benefits that can come from that. What are some of your go-to scriptures for yourself when it comes to mental health?

Speaker 2: 30:09

Yeah, so I think 2 Corinthians 10.5, which is, we demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God. We take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. So, really, the idea that you know our thoughts, yes, they are our own, but we can make them captive to Christ. And so if we are struggling with kind of negative thinking or kind of spiraling down out of control, jesus, take our thoughts, we give them up to you. You are Lord over our thoughts.

Speaker 2: 30:41

Help transform our mind and, by the same token, romans 12, 2, do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you'll be able to test and approve what God's will is, his good, pleasing, perfect will. And so, northgate Church, I want to bless you today that you would be transformed by the renewing of your mind through Christ Jesus. That Jesus is the author and perfecter of our faith. He made our minds, he made our imaginations. He knows you more than you even realize and loves you more than we even could ever imagine. And when we give our thoughts up to him, he will absolutely transform.

Speaker 1: 31:27

I love the second Corinthians one. Just the idea of demolishing the arguments of, like our inner critic.

Speaker 1: 31:33

So, much we criticize ourselves. Yeah, and putting that in its place. Well, I want to thank you so much, dr Ho, for coming here to Northgate. We thank Dr Cheryl Ho for being with us today, being with us today. So the idea of today was really just those practical pieces of help.

Speaker 1: 31:56

Next week, a dear friend of mine, john Orberg, is going to be coming in and talking about five practical things that give us hope, and we're going to focus a bit more on the spiritual side, and then, on August 18th, I want to invite you to be a part of that. We're going to claim this thing this is not the end of this mental health conversation. This is really just the beginning of some healthy conversations and, like you've heard in many of these testimonial videos, there is hope, there is help and it's not over, and so we're going to talk about the it's not over part on the 18th as we gather here together. I hope that today has been helpful in giving some of you permission and tools and think of it just that that you've just now put some tools in your tool belt and have the ability to use them as necessary in your life when you're dealing with this or when a friend or a family member or a coworker or a neighbor is struggling with some stuff, to just come by with some simple practical help and then through that we can give hope that comes from Jesus. So we are going to respond right now in worship, but first let me pray to that end.

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God, thank you for just the practical help that you give, and I thank you for people like Dr Cheryl Ho, who's educated and got to learn, but also knows you and gets to look through that perspective and the lens of being a wholehearted follower of Christ. So thank you for that gift today, thank you for the permission that was given today, and I just ask that your Holy Spirit would meet us where we are as we worship and give comfort where comfort needs and peace, encouragement, challenge, faith, strength. God, you know what it is we need. We're ready to meet you right there. Would you see us right here, right now? In your name, we pray amen.